JP1 Remotes

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Entire IR file: https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=3188

Here's what I have:

CD is not a real device. It is just used to hold stuff.

Power is a macro: X-CD,XSHIFT-Power

This decides whether I am in device-specific home theater mode or not:

CD XSHIFT-Power is a Test-Only Toadtog
On: SHIFT-Power
Off: X-Cancel,SHIFT-Power

This is for the device-specific home theater case:

CD SHIFT-Power is a LKP
Short: X-TV,SHIFT-Power
Long: X-Cancel,SHIFT-Power

Everything works except the case where I am in device-specific home theater mode and I do a long press of the Power button. In that case, nothing happens. That is, the X-Cancel,SHIFT-Power (last line of code above) does not send Power to the selected (canceled to) device.

Before my latest change, it all worked fine. Then:

CD XSHIFT-Power is a Test-Only Toadtog
On: X-TV,SHIFT-Power
Off: X-Cancel,SHIFT-Power

CD SHIFT-Power was not defined.

At that time, if I was in device-specific home theater mode, Power would only be sent to the TV. The purpose of the change, was to have a long press of Power send Power to the selected device just as any Power would in not in home theater mode.

Basically, my change made no difference at all except that a long press of Power in home theater mode now does nothing where as before is was indistinguishable from a short press.

Any help would be appreciated -- Vincent

I've looked at your setup some, but can't see why it behaves that way. I will say it's (to me) a rather confusing way of setting up your devices (and I've got some PRETTY confusing combinations of LKP's and ToadTogs myself!)

The only thing I could possibly surmise is that the x_cancel command on the Long side of the LKP somehow messes things up, like maybe you end up in a "limbo" in which NO device index is assigned to the "other" keyset, but it's really hard to trace the various paths.

If nobody smarter than me jumps in, I'll try to have a closer look in a bit.

Capn Trips wrote:I've looked at your setup some, but can't see why it behaves that way. I will say it's (to me) a rather confusing way of setting up your devices (and I've got some PRETTY confusing combinations of LKP's and ToadTogs myself!)

The only thing I could possibly surmise is that the x_cancel command on the Long side of the LKP somehow messes things up, like maybe you end up in a "limbo" in which NO device index is assigned to the "other" keyset, but it's really hard to trace the various paths.

If nobody smarter than me jumps in, I'll try to have a closer look in a bit.

Thanks for looking at it. This "messing up" you hypothesize -- have you seen such thing happen before? I didn't realize I was treading on dangerous water.

Thinking about it, I'm not sure how X-Cancel works (although I don't think my doubts are relevant to my case here). I was assuming that it was non-hierarchal. That is, X-TV,X-VCR,X-Cancel would leave you canceled all the way back to current device mode of the remote. Is that right?

I also assume that X-Cancel -- all X's really -- recognize no macro boundaries. That is, if I expand out a particular case, I will get a correct analysis of what happens. For example, If I am in VCR Home Theater mode and hold down the Power button, it will expand to X-CD,X-Cancel,SHIFT-Power and the VCR should turn off/on.

Off topic: I'm interested in your comment on my setup being confusing. I assume you are referring to the resulting UI, not the implementation. Let me explain it from the UI point of view to see if you continue to think it's bad. I found the normal Home Theater mode overly restrictive because it singles out one primary source of material. Seemed to me that you really want a Home Theater mode for each source device, VCR, Cable-DVR and Stand-Alone DVR in my case. So I wanted a short push of a device button to enter Home Theater mode for that device and a long push to enter raw mode.

That's all there is to it. All the other complexity comes from my desire to have Power be in the Volume key group instead of Other. This is because many of my devices used the M, L and PIP keys to control things needed in Home Theater mode while I wanted Power to control the TV.

Well is the way it was. I noticed that most of the time when I had to shift to raw device mode, it was to get at the device Power function. So I decided that I wanted a long push of the Power button to be the raw function when in Home Theater mode.

Much Thanks -- Vincent

Found it. When in Home theater modes, for VCR and DVD, I'm in O_TV mode. In HT CBL mode, I am in O_CBL, but in that case the LKP DOES turn on/off the cable box -- I didn't test that case. I'll edit if and when I come up with a fix.

Vincent

Kruskal wrote: This "messing up" you hypothesize -- have you seen such thing happen before? I didn't realize I was treading on dangerous water.

I just meant exactly what you ultimately discovered, which is it gets easy to lose track of what the active device assignment would be after the x_cancel command is executed.

Kruskal wrote: Thinking about it, I'm not sure how X-Cancel works (although I don't think my doubts are relevant to my case here). I was assuming that it was non-hierarchal. That is, X-TV,X-VCR,X-Cancel would leave you canceled all the way back to current device mode of the remote. Is that right?

I also assume that X-Cancel -- all X's really -- recognize no macro boundaries.

Your understanding of the x-cancel command is accurate. It cancels all preceding X-anything commands and keygroup assignments revert to the last ones set.

Kruskal wrote: Off topic: I'm interested in your comment on my setup being confusing. I assume you are referring to the resulting UI, not the implementation. Let me explain it from the UI point of view to see if you continue to think it's bad. I found the normal Home Theater mode overly restrictive because it singles out one primary source of material. Seemed to me that you really want a Home Theater mode for each source device, VCR, Cable-DVR and Stand-Alone DVR in my case. So I wanted a short push of a device button to enter Home Theater mode for that device and a long push to enter raw mode.

That's all there is to it. All the other complexity comes from my desire to have Power be in the Volume key group instead of Other. This is because many of my devices used the M, L and PIP keys to control things needed in Home Theater mode while I wanted Power to control the TV.

Well is the way it was. I noticed that most of the time when I had to shift to raw device mode, it was to get at the device Power function. So I decided that I wanted a long push of the Power button to be the raw function when in Home Theater mode.

"Confusing" is in the eye of the beholder. I NEVER use the TV speakers, so EVERY device mode I have is a "Home Theater" mode. I basically see no need for OTHER than that. I, on the other hand DO have LKPs on every device button and Power to
(a) set up the remote to operate ONLY one piece of equipment (short), or;
(b) power up and line up all of the equipment for listening/viewing from THAT source (tailored HT modes) (long).

Short Power turns off the active component, whilst Long Power turns off everything.

Given your desired functionality, it's probably as efficient as any setup. I'm simply saying that I wouldn't do it that way. But that's the beauty of JP1 - you can have it YOUR way!

Kruskal wrote:Found it. When in Home theater modes, for VCR and DVD, I'm in O_TV mode. In HT CBL mode, I am in O_CBL, but in that case the LKP DOES turn on/off the cable box -- I didn't test that case. I'll edit if and when I come up with a fix.

Vincent

Well, the mystery remains. In all modes, the M-keys -- in particular Select -- are for the current device. So I defined DSMs for each device, DEV, for XSHIFT-Select: X-DEV,SHIFT-Power. And I changed all the references to SHIFT-Power intended to power the current device to XSHIFT-Select. That should have fixed the problem I thought I had identified.

But the remotes behavior fails in exactly the same way. Namely, LKP Power in Home Theater mode for VCR and DVD do nothing. I think it works in CBL because the dummy device CD is defined with the same device code as CBL.

Stuck again -- Vincent

PS I have updated https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=3188

Not being able to think of any thing else to try, I decided to change the order of the Toadtog and the LKP. That is, instead of the Toadtog possibly calling the LKP, I'd have the LKP possibly call the Toadtog. Shouldn't make any difference, right? Well it DIDN'T.

So the way things now stand:

Power is a macro: X_CD,XSHIFT-Power

For all devices, DEV:

XSHIFT-Select is a DSM:

X_DEV;SHIFT-Power

This makes a LKP unconditionally be a device Power (if it worked):

CD XSHIFT-Power is a LKP
Short: SHIFT-Power
Long: X_Cancel,XSHIFT-Select

This is a TV Power in HT mode and device Power otherwise:

CD SHIFT-Power is a Test-Only Toadtog
On: X_TV,XSHIFT-Select
Off: X_Cancel,XSHIFT-Select

As a test, I defined a Sleep macro to be: XSHIFT-Select

Sleep always does a device Power on/off. Even in the two cases, VCR and DVD (HT LKP), when the X_Cancel,XSHIFT-Select on the Long branch fails to do anything.

Very strange -- Vincent

PS I have updated https://www.hifi-remote.com/forums/dload ... le_id=3188

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