RCRP05B Extender - LKP Trouble

dannyo · Post by **dannyo** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:37 pm

I'm a beginner extenderite trying to use the RCRP05B Extender.
I'm trying to turn on the TV and Receiver and set them up for watching TV with a long press of the TV button.

Using RMIR, I see that the LDKP feature is in the Special Functions. I created a new Special Function:

TV TV LKP(3) [Short]:TV [Long]:TV;Phantom1;AUD;Phantom3;TV;Phantom5;Set_Chan;AUD;Phantom7;Set_Vol;TV

I'm not sure how the Special Functions work. Should the string following the [Long] to be executed as a macro when the TV button is held down and the string after the [Short] be executed as a macro on a short press?

mdavej · Post by **mdavej** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:54 pm

Using TV inside the macros is causing a loop. TV is not a device selection like you think, but is running whatever macro you assigned to the TV button. You need to use Dev_TV instead. Same goes for AUD, etc. On the short side you probably want to set all key groups to TV, i.e., Dev_TV, Set_Chan, Set_Vol, etc. The long side looks ok except for needing Dev_TV instead of TV, etc. as I said before.

I usually put stuff I'd have on both sides in a macro before the LKP is called. For example, on the Macro tab, make a TV macro that has Dev_TV, Set_Chan, etc. with the last command something like Xshift-TV. Then on the Special tab, make a Xshift-TV LKP macro with the short side blank and the long side with the rest of your watch tv macro steps.

dannyo · Post by **dannyo** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:42 pm

mdavej wrote:Using TV inside the macros is causing a loop. TV is not a device selection like you think, but is running whatever macro you assigned to the TV button. You need to use Dev_TV instead. Same goes for AUD, etc. On the short side you probably want to set all key groups to TV, i.e., Dev_TV, Set_Chan, Set_Vol, etc. The long side looks ok except for needing Dev_TV instead of TV, etc. as I said before.

Ah, that makes sense. I was use to using the TV to select the mode but it can't now since it's redefined by the special function. It was hanging up. Thanks.

mdavej wrote:I usually put stuff I'd have on both sides in a macro before the LKP is called. For example, on the Macro tab, make a TV macro that has Dev_TV, Set_Chan, etc. with the last command something like Xshift-TV. Then on the Special tab, make a Xshift-TV LKP macro with the short side blank and the long side with the rest of your watch tv macro steps.

So check me. Special functions can have zero, one or two macros to execute depending on the type and conditions. Is that right?

Also in your example, "TV macro" means I should assign it to the TV button and Xshift-TV is being used like a phantom key, not intended to be used?

dannyo · Post by **dannyo** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:51 pm

In the Special Function tab "New" window it insists on a bound device. Does that mean the remote has to be in that device mode to execute the special function when the key is pressed?

Is there a way to always execute a special function with a key regardless of mode?

mdavej · Post by **mdavej** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:56 pm

Correct on all counts. Use any real or phantom key you like, Xshift-TV is only an example. Remember also that macros can call other macros, or even call themselves, as you found out already. And the device buttons are just buttons and don't do device selection in the extender, the Dev_ commands do that now.

Yes, you have to have a bound device. But that's no problem because if you put the calling macro on the Macro tab, it's global (works from any device mode). So if you want Red for example to mute the TV on a long press in every mode, just make a new macro on Red with Dev_TV and phantom1. Then make an LKP for TV phantom1 that does Mute on the Long side. Hope that makes sense.

Non-global macros are called DSMs (device specific macros) and can be made on the Special tab.

dannyo · Post by **dannyo** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:17 pm

Thanks mdavej. That was excellent help. I'll go ahead and repair the damage with your recommendations.

How about one more question? In the LKMS hierarchy that vickyg presents in the IR Help document it says
Learned Keys
Keymoves
Macros
take priority in that order. Where do Special Functions fit in that order if there is a conflict?

mdavej · Post by **mdavej** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:17 pm

Good question. Vicky, Unclemiltie or other extender authors probably know for sure. But my guess is they're at or below the macro level.

Post by **vickyg2003** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:12 am

mdavej wrote:Good question. Vicky, Unclemiltie or other extender authors probably know for sure. But my guess is they're at or below the macro level.

But for any of the old JP1 extenders, or JP1.2 extenders or unextended remotes, a special protocol is a keymove. So a Pause would trump a macro in a normal remote. Unclemilte's extenders might change the order. I think unclemiltie only does one pass so its whatever comes first.

unclemiltie · Post by **unclemiltie** » Wed Jan 25, 2012 7:06 pm

All special functions in the extender are key moves. However, the extender (at least the JP1.3 extenders) searches different than the unextended remote.

The extender will search the advance code area until it finds something that matches the key.

If what is found is a macro then it is loaded and control is passed back to the key processor.

If what is found is a key move, the device is checked. If that matches, the key move is executed (including specials) and control is passed back to the key processor.

If it does not match, searching continues until a new match is found or the end of the advance code list is reached.

So this all depends on how things are added by IR or RMIR. If you don't have multiple things on a single key, no issue but you could have a situation where a key move and macro are on the same key and the macro executes in all but one device if the advance codes get organized "right". But this could be confusing to say the least and any reordering of the advance codes could break something that previously worked

Post by **vickyg2003** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:21 pm

Unclemiltie (Bill), I thought this was how your JP1.3 extenders worked but is this how your kameleon extender worked too?

unclemiltie · Post by **unclemiltie** » Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:06 pm

That would require me to really go back and dust off some cobwebs to remember how that one worked.

But I can assure you that the JP1.3 ones work that way!

andyross · Post by **andyross** » Sat Jan 28, 2012 8:20 am

For reference, I also use LKP for turning on and setting up devices (and one for Power OFF.) It looks roughly like this (CBL key example):
Dev_AUD;Set_Vol;Dev_CBL;Set_Trans;Set_Chan;Set_PIP;Set_Menu;Set_Other;Shift-CBL

Shift-CBL is an LKP(4):
[Short]:<none>
[Long]:Dev_AUD;DiscreteOn;2;Dev_TV;DiscreteOn;Phantom4;Dev_CBL
(TV Phantom4 is HDMI4 select)

dannyo · Post by **dannyo** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:02 pm

Thank you andyross,
I have it working somewhat now. My Sony TV takes awhile to react to functions right after a power on so I added a pause after the discrete ons. Experimenting resulted in about 6 seconds required. It's annoying to have to point the remote that long but I don't know of a solution. I just hold it until the lights stop blinking.

[Short]:<none> [Long]:Dev_TV;DiscreteOn;Dev_AUD;Phantom3;Dev_TV;XShift-Input;Phantom5;Dev_AUD;Phantom7;Dev_TV

where Phantom5 and 7 select the TV and RCVR inputs respectively.

I recommend for anyone else using this is to put a large amount of delay (maybe 10 seconds) in the pause to make sure everything is working and then reduce the delay just enough to keep it working. Also if something fails to set, try pressing the button again. If that works then I think it may be a delay problem.

3FG · Post by **3FG** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:59 pm

I don't see the value of including delays, when the required delay is more than about a second. Instead, I prefer to put in no delay, and push the button twice. That way I don't have to hold the remote during the delay.

We have a Sony TV, and it is setup so that it remembers the input state it had before it was last powered off. It turns out that we nearly always want the same input the next time we watch it. So typically it isn't necessary to push the on button twice.

unclemiltie · Post by **unclemiltie** » Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:15 pm

dannyo wrote:
[Short]:<none> [Long]:Dev_TV;DiscreteOn;Dev_AUD;Phantom3;Dev_TV;XShift-Input;Phantom5;Dev_AUD;Phantom7;Dev_TV

where Phantom5 and 7 select the TV and RCVR inputs respectively.

A point of clarification. The extender does an implicit Dev_Cancel at the end of every macro when it passes control back to the underlying remote so the Dev_TV on the end of your LKP is not necessary unless there is something else firing after that (i.e. another macro)

Everything in the extender is a "macro", even a single key press is pushed onto the macro buffer and then executed as if it was a one-key macro. As you push more on to the buffer, the macro gets longer but eventually when the extender winds its way down to the end the Dev_Cancel is executed and control goes back to the part of the remote that waits for you to push another key.