Newbie extender 2117 help

[Capn Trips]

I have 7 devices defined, 6 of those have upgrades, 1 I use out of the box but I need to learn 2 commands from it, I still haven't figured out how to convert the learned info into keymoves or macros (since I really don't need an upgrade for my cheap tv, just 2 buttons).

I have 2 Sony VCRs, Replay, Atlanta 8000 cable box, Onkyo reciever, Cheap Zenith TV (which I can live with the base 17 command set if I have the 2 learned commands), Cyberhome DVD player, Sony MD player, total of 8 devices and I could use a few more: LD Player, 2nd Replay, Beta VCR, SVHS VCR among others. I think I need the all in one 12

The Onkyo, Sony VCR mode 3, Cyberhome and Replay have to have the device upgrades since the basic device isn't in the remote and the Onkyo and Replay have the 2 large protocols. I could loose the other Sony VCR upgrade and the Zenith TV upgrade, but that's about it.

If I pare things down as much as I can, I'm still about 100 bytes short I think. Can I steal those 100 from the macro section?

I'm jumping in here, as I arrogantly hope that I can help clarify a bit. Although JP1 provides pretty powerful tools, there remains (in complex home entertainment setups like yours) a balancing act to achieve best use of the memory available in the EEPROM. Although in general, it is simple to say a Device upgrade (with it's greater key-mapping ability) gets you more keys assigned per byte of EEPROM than keymoves, (and certainly than learning) if you have excess unused keymove space and no upgrade space left, you may be better served shifting to a few built-in devices (deleting the associated upgrades) and filling in the button assignment gaps with keymoves. For a ridiculous example, take a lok at Robman's UNEXTENDED setup here. A magical balance of keymove/macro, upgrade and learning memory usage to control 13 devices!

Example - your TV: You claim that you have most of the functionality from a built-in device code, but need two "learned" keys. If you learned them, you can decode them. Presumably the Device and Protocol information matches the built-in setup code, and all you really need from the learned signal are the EFCs. Go to the keymoves tab, and assign keymoves to the two keys (calling on the TV device code) with those EFCs.

Similarly, if the only other device that you have found a code "resident" in the remote for is one Sony VCR, you should delete that device upgrade, and use the built-in setup code, and fill in the missing functions/buttons with keymoves (presumably you know all of the EFCs you need since you built a device upgrade).

You might also consider, to minimize the size of your device upgrades, merely building an upgrade with NO BUTTONS ASSIGNED, and then make all of the key assignments as keymoves - either on the keymove sheet of KM or in IR, calling on the upgrade. I'm not sure how much per device upgrade that would save you, but it sounds like you need every little bit.

If that doesn't free enough upgrade space, then you may need to look for one of the experts to tailor a version of the extender to shift the assignment of memory from keymove/macro use to upgrade use.

If this serves only to confuse the issue more I apologize, but I really think you have efficiencies in memory usage that can still be squeezed out.

[Capn Trips]

My final suggestion would be to upload your (unextended) upgrade to the diagnosis folder and perhaps one of the experts could analyze it for the type of memory-saving or memory-shifting tricks that might work.

If you can't squeeze them all into an upgrade, then upload the KM or RM files in a zip folder, so someone can take a look at what options you may have to save upgrade space.

[bsoplinger]

You may be able to get by using the Panasonic Protocol for ReplayTV,
which I believe is builtin to the remotes... http://hifi-remote.com/cgi-bin2/ueic.cgi?PVR_0616

Hmm, ok this looks interesting, but I don't see direct access to things like the channel guide, replay guide, commercial skip etc. Do I need to try that protocol and then learn those commands and look to see if the learned tab in IR.exe can decode them? Then put them in as keymoves?

I think I'm beginning to get the magic of this and how one can trade off between a device upgrade and keymoves instead.

To the person who commented about me having build the device ugrades, I haven't, all the ones I am using I've found over in the files section at Yahoo.

If this fails, I guess I'll try the upload my current remote setup to the files section and hope someone helps, I'd just hate to waste somebody's time if there's a solution out there that I'm just missing cause I don't know enough.

[Capn Trips]

Wow! I didn't realize that you were using exclusively pre-built device upgrades from the files section. I guess that's what they are there for, but I think the presumption is that folks would take them and modify/customize them as necessary to meet their particular requirements.

That said, if you have, in fact, learned some of the signals that you need, have you looked at the "Learned Signals" tab in IR to decode them?

With the protocol, device, sub-device, OBC/Hex/EFC for a few buttons, there are likely folks that can tell you whether there is a built-in setup code that will operate the device you want (and what that setup code is).

If you have some of those built-in setup codes identified and assigned, but they don't provide you the complete functionality you seek (missing or misassigned functions to buttons), you can use THAT BUILT-IN SETUP CODE as the basis for keymoves WITHOUT RESORTING TO A DEVICE UPGRADE. The EFC's you need to identify the keymoves can be read from the "Learned Signal" decode, as before.

If I read this string correctly, you have the following devices:
Sony VCR #1
Sony VCR #2
Replay
Atlanta 8000 cable box
Onkyo reciever
Cheap Zenith TV
Cyberhome DVD player
Sony MD player

Have you tried searching Rob's site for built-in setup codes? I would try:
VCR/0035, 0032, 0034, 0000, 0033, or 0253 for the Sony VCRs;
AUD/135 for the Onkyo receiver
TV/0017, 0016, or 0092 for the Zenith TV
MISC/0010 or 0159 for the Sony MD player
the other components MAY have built-in setup codes that will operate them, at least partially, as well. Posting your working device upgrades in the Yahoo Groups Diagnosis Area may get someone to recognize what built-in setup code will work them.

You can also look at this awesome Sony VCR code site for specific device/subdevice possibilities as well as the most complete list of EFCs for Sony VCRs anywhere - but this page only gives you device/sub-device codes - NOT UEIC built-in setup codes. Again, there are folks smarter than me here, who can say what built-in setup code (if any) corresponds to a device/subdevice combination you have identified as working via a device upgrade.

Similarly, the Sony MD code site can help you with the MD codes and EFCs.

You may already HAVE all of this info from your working device upgrades. Again, if you post them (as has been suggested several times by various folks), someone can look at them and suggest to you possibilities for shifting from device upgrades to built-in setup codes.

It's really not that hard, but I acknowledge that it takes some time and fiddling with the tools before it all "clicks".

Good luck!

[Capn Trips]

Here is a specific example of shifting button assignments from a device upgrade to keymoves:

The Onkyo Receiver upgrade.

It appears that protocol 01 40 and device AUD/0135 (the UEI setup code that seems to work most of these Onkyyo receivers) is NOT resident in your 2116/17. Therefore you are forced to include those protocol and device upgrades in your setup. I don't know which Onkyo device upgrade you selected from the Yahoo files, but randomly selecting the most recent one for the Onkyo HT-SR510 Receiver and changing the remote on the "Setup" page to the 2116/17 yields a 46-byte protocol upgrade (which you can't simplify) and a 53-byte device upgrade (as well as a 6-byte key move - in this case for the "sleep" button).

If you now take every button assignment on the "Buttons" tab and delete it, then re-assign those same buttons AS KEYMOVES on the "Keymoves" tab (selecting "upgrade" as your "bound device"), your device upgrade has been reduced to a mere 5 bytes - a decrease of 48 bytes in upgrade space required!

However you have paid for that with 132 bytes of keymoves! Check this upgrade out HERE.

You can probably do that with a few other upgrades and save enough upgrade space (at the expense of a LOT of keymove space) to get all of the upgrades you need installed.

Then you can start tweaking these. If you find yourself short of KeyMove/Macro space, you can selectively shift KeyMoves back to being buttons assigned in the device upgrade by one-sies and two-sies to get the precise balance in memory usage that you need.

But if that's where you have the space to spare, that's the way to go.

[bsoplinger]

OK, file is uploaded to the diagnostics area on Yahoo, RS 15-2117 Small State.txt, with a description including my userid of bsoplinger. While someone is looking at this for space saving issues, I have another question/problem. I have a learned code for the replaytv, on the CD button, that I used IR.exe to put on a shifted tv/video key. I put what I thought was the correct info on the unshifted tv/video key but it doesn't work, can someone tell me what I did wrong there?

And yes, you're right, there isn't a built-in code for my Onkyo nor for Sony VCR 0034/0035/0032 (whichever is Sony VCR3 mode) which I need so I've got to have that one VCR device upgrade also.

[vasqued2]

Does this file have everything you wanted to convert over to the Extender 2? I was able to run extinstall on it and it converted all of the keymoves and upgrades just fine w/ 116 bytes left for upgrades and 685 bytes left for keymoves.

Your file didn't have any learned signals in it. It looks like you mapped the EFC for 'Return to Live' onto the TV/Video button. Is that what you wanted to map to it?

David

[bsoplinger]

Sounds like I've messed up then, I re-downloaded from the remote into IR.exe then saved the file and re-uploaded it to Yahoo, name "RS 15-2117 Small State Update.txt"

And the EFC I've tried to map was supposed to be input source to the TV/Video button, but it doesn't work.

[Capn Trips]

Sounds like I've messed up then, I re-downloaded from the remote into IR.exe then saved the file and re-uploaded it to Yahoo, name "RS 15-2117 Small State Update.txt"

Well, running your upgrade through extinstall yields an upgrade with 116 bytes free in the upgrade section and 685 bytes free in the Keymove/Macro section of memory. I see no sign of the 01 45 protocol you referred to previously (presumably due to lack of memory - or did you find a built-in device code - VCR/0616? - that operates your Replay?). As I outlined above, although I can't reverse-engineer your RCVR/1135 upgrade (I assume that is your Onkyo), you could probably gain close to 50 bytes in upgrade space by deleting all of your button assignments in that device upgrade and making them keymoves instead. Have you tried that yet?

[bsoplinger]

Yes, this is the remote without the 0145 Replay extended device and protocol (VCR/2000) and the Sony device upgrade, which makes enough space to load the extender as you folks have suggested to me. The problem is I rather liked being able to access those advanced functions and even not-so-advanced-to-me functions like showing the replaytv guide (which is the list of recorded shows) directly without having to go through the menu. The basic protocol, VCR/0616 doesn't seem to have these and even when I learn the signal, which is in the file I uploaded, hopefully, I can't seem to make it 'stick' via a keymove.

I'm being awful at explaining my needs to you folks, so let me try again.

1) I wanted to be able to take my remote as I had it and add the extender.

2) There wasn't enough room so I posted here for help.

3) Folks said it couldn't be done as I had the remote set up but there were ways to 'gain' memory.

3a) I did what was suggested and removed the custom device/protocol that took up the most space and those that had a built in device: the Replaytv VCR/2000 protocol that I got from the Yahoo files section and one of the Sony VCR devices that also had a built in device. (I honestly thought I needed these device upgrades to do anything at all with those devices since I needed to use the Onkyo upgrade just to be able to control my reciever at all, I guess I got so lost in what JP1 did that I forgot about the fact that the remote is chock full of pre-defined codes that can do a lot just by themselves )

3b) Now there is room in my remote for the extender, this is good! Thanks to all who got me this far.

3c) I followed the link to the Sony Code page and figured out how to keymove some of the missing functionality that I lost when I went from the Sony upgraded device to the built in device.

3d) I missed some of the functionality I had with the device upgrade for the replay, so I figured I'd try to learn some signals, particularly those that I used a lot. One example is in the file I've uploaded but I moved the learned key from tv/vcr to shift-tv/vcr with IR.exe so that the file I uploaded would have the info for yous to look at and tell me what I'm doing wrong. I then tried to do a keymove on tv/vcr for that learned signal but it doesn't work and I don't know what I did wrong. These 2 things are on device CD loaded as VCR/0616 (the built in replaytv code).

4) I hope I put in enough info here now for yous all to help me.

4a) Trying to guess and understand, assuming that the VCR/0616 device just won't do the things the upgraded VCR/2000 replaytv device I got from Yahoo, I could try what Capn Trips suggests, load up the upgrade in KM, copy over the protocol it uses then try removing keys in the device to make the device file small enough to fit at the expense of using up keymover space. I do hope I got this part right, but I hope 3d) will work and you folks can find some mistake I'm making in the learning -> keymove step.

4b) Is it ok to have 0 bytes in the upgrade space? Ie, when I'm doing 4a) if I have to, can I shoot to make the device upgrade be exactly how much space is left or is there a need for 'breathing room?'

[Capn Trips]

OK, bsoplinger,

Although it would be a LOT easier if you actually provided the individual upgrades you are using, here is a small (or perhaps large) first step.

For your IR upgrade that you uploaded, after running it through the ExtInstall program you get an IR upgrade with 685 bytes available for KeyMoves and 116 bytes available for upgrades - correct?

It appears that you used Onkyo_TX-SR601_RCVR-1135.txt from the Yahoo Groups file section for your Onkyo device upgrade, straight up. Is that correct?

I took this device upgrade and removed every button assignment (except for Discrete ON to "play") from the upgrade and made the EXACT SAME ASSIGNMENTS via KeyMoves on the Key Moves Tab. Take a look at the modified KM file HERE to see how I accomplished this.

I now pasted this upgrade into the Extender IR (THREE "pastes"). The protocol upgrade for this device remains the same, you replace the device upgrade for RCVR/1135 in IR with my new one, and paste in the key moves from the device upgrade into IR, yielding THIS.

As a result your available Keymove/Macro space drops from 685 to 499 (used up 186 more bytes), but your upgrade space increased from 116 to 180 (saved 64 bytes). Is 180 bytes of upgrade space sufficient to install your Replay and other upgrades?

You can repeat the process with some of your other upgrades, as well.

FURTHER, not knowing which devices have partial functionality with built-in setup codes, you MAY be able to COMPLETELY ELIMINATE some device upgrades, and get the additional functions using Keymoves calling on that built-in setup code, rather than on a device upgrade. If you provide each of your Device upgrades, and informnation as to which component they are for, and what built-in device codes worked for these devices, and I find enough time, I might be able to do this for you, or one of the other experts may be able to figure some of this out with somewhat less information than I need, but -
I've already gained you 86 upgrade bytes, you need to do the rest yourself.

[sfhub]

The problem is I rather liked being able to access those advanced functions and even not-so-advanced-to-me functions like showing the replaytv guide (which is the list of recorded shows) directly without having to go through the menu. The basic protocol, VCR/0616 doesn't seem to have these and even when I learn the signal, which is in the file I uploaded, hopefully, I can't seem to make it 'stick' via a keymove.

http://hifi-remote.com/cgi-bin2/ueic.cgi?PVR_0616

I'm not sure which advanced functions you are after, but VCR/0616
does have everything I've ever needed, they just aren't mapped by
default, you need to add a keymove using the appropriate EFC.

For example
Replay Guide - EFC 084
Channel Guide - EFC 087
Replay Zones - EFC 088
Quick Skip - EFC 219
Instant Replay - EFC 086
Commercial Advance - EFC 057