8910,7800 extenders ToadTog, Fav list, HT settings questions

[ElizabethD]

1. 8910 HT settings: I see no way to say ‘none’ to the settings on the right side of the general tab in IR. I don’t think I need them set since device macros allow custom setup. They seem to do no harm , but I just wonder what takes precedence and if it will bite me some day since I use HT button as the triple-shift and not as a device.

2. ToadTog supports two states. To convert more than two discrete commands to a toggle (such as cycling through 4-5 input selections - discrete codes on keymoves) would it make sense to throw the idea into the Fav macros? Do people do that sort of thing or is this a complete heresy?

3. Fav/Scan: I started down this path but then got myself lost. Can someone explain me better, perhaps using this heap of questions or by whatever means is easiest:

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 Readme: IR handles all 15 mini-macros together as one line item in its Scan/Fav tab.  Within that line item, the mini macros are delimited by "{pause}".  

3.1 Is {Pause} a delimiter for parsing a line in IR or a genuine pause of some duration? If the remote doesn’t do a stupid timed scan what would the point of a pause be for the user pushing a button when they please, or am I misunderstanding that it works one button press after another? Are there restrictions to keys being used? If a key is already a macro will it nest or crash? If it’s a keymove will it work? Should I avoid nesting in the 7800 C7 remote? (I haven’t used 7800 extender yet, but want to have as much common setup as possible)

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 Readme: The extender executes just one mini-macro each time you press the Fav key (advancing through them circularly).

3.2 If you push the Fav button not in succession, but with some other commands in between, will subsequent pressing Fav continue where it left off or start from the beginning of the list? I thought the answer to this one would be obvious to me but so far I’ve succeeded in crashing the remote

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 Readme: IR also allows you to create additional whole Fav lists; but the remote can't use them.

3.3 Does this mean I can’t make similar lists for several devices? If yes, then if the list can contain identical buttons to press, a keymove to the Fav button should be used from the device mode where it’s needed? I’m getting confused in how to code it. I have two lines currently, one for AUX, one for RCVR and it’s sort of not working too well. So I’m reading instructions before sinking any deeper in this adventure.

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 Readme: To have it do something other than a Fav operation on certain device indexes, you must define a Key Move for Fav for each such device index.  (The Key Move will only override the Fav List if IR.EXE puts the key move earlier within the KeyMove/Macro/FavList pool than it puts the FavList.)

3.4 Is this related to the previous question? What does it mean? I don’t think I know the difference between Scan and Fav and other. And how to assure the sequence is right? I don’t see how, in IR, to control what goes where.

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 Readme: The extender will switch the temporary device index to equal the Fav device index whenever it starts a Fav mini-macro. 

3.5 Assume a Fav list for AUX device and assume the active device is not AUX when I press FAV button. Will the extender switch to AUX and back to where we came from when done with one mini macro? Does it switch to temporary device (Fav device index?) for each mini macro? For the whole line once before the first item in the cycle?

Most of this stuff is tied together and I’m having trouble separating into smaller pieces, hope it isn’t too terrible to answer

[johnsfine]

what takes precedence and if it will bite me some day since I use HT button as the triple-shift and not as a device.

The HT settings from the general tab become available each time the remote does a "battery reset" (each time it finishes an upload or download via JP1 and most times that you replace a battery that was out).

They become unavailable whenever overidden by a device selection command in a macro, then remain unavailable until the next battery reset.

While available, they are in effect while the extender is active or while HT mode is active outside the extender.

2. Do people do that sort of thing or is this a complete heresy?

Whatever makes YOUR remote do what YOU want it to is right. Why do you care if anyone else did it that way?

3.1 Is {Pause} a delimiter for parsing a line in IR or a genuine pause of some duration?

Without an extender, the remote just pauses between mini macros in the fav list, so IR's GUI was based on that behavior.
With an extender, the behavior is different, so {Pause} just becomes a strange way for IR to display the delimiter. In any case, nothing representing that {PAUSE} is stored in the eeprom. The remote and IR both know the fixed length of a mini macro and each starts (without any delimiter) where the previous one ends. But showing it to the user THAT way would be even more confusing.

If a key is already a macro will it nest or crash?

In extenders that support macro nesting at all, macros nest equally well from all possible sources (mini macros, toadtogs, etc.)

Should I avoid nesting in the 7800 C7 remote?

That extender will avoid nesting for you

It has macro "concatenation", which means that invoking a macro from within another macro works right as the last step of the first macro, but if you try it as other than the last step it will be the last step (invoked macro will execute and remaining steps of the original macro will be ignored).

3.2 If you push the Fav button not in succession, but with some other commands in between, will subsequent pressing Fav continue where it left off or start from the beginning of the list? I thought the answer to this one would be obvious to me but so far I’ve succeeded in crashing the remote

I also thought the answer would be obvious (continue where it left off). I'm not sure how that relates to crashing the remote.

3.3 Does this mean I can’t make similar lists for several devices?

Sorry. One list only.

[johnsfine]

then if the list can contain identical buttons to press,

I thought I knew where you were going with that, (but the temporary device selection would make it trickier). BUT2

a keymove to the Fav button should be used from the device mode where it’s needed?

Then you really lost me.

I have two lines currently, one for AUX, one for RCVR and it’s sort of not working too well.

I don't remember every detail. But I think that just won't work.

3.4 Is this related to the previous question?

No.

What does it mean?

It tells you how to have something entirely different (not a fav list) assigned to the Fav key in some modes, rather than having the fav list active in all modes.

And how to assure the sequence is right? I don’t see how, in IR, to control what goes where.

IR has changed so much since I last looked at that question, I have no clue. It used to be true that it put those things in the sequence you first defined them, so if that was right you were fine. Otherwise, if you used the left column drag method to resequence ANY KeyMove relative to any other KeyMove, it would fix all the hidden sequence relationships to correct.

3.5 Assume a Fav list for AUX device and assume the active device is not AUX when I press FAV button. Will the extender switch to AUX and back to where we came from when done with one mini macro? Does it switch to temporary device (Fav device index?) for each mini macro?

That's the idea. I sure hope it works. I haven't used the extender's fav list at all in a long time (my cable box has a better fav list).

[ElizabethD]

Thanks, John. Super answers. Takes me a good bit out of trouble. BTW crashing had nothing to do with Fav list. I had a bad reference = user error.
I saw your first answer earlier and got some of this stuff to work now that I have a clue what's happening. I really appreciate your second answer which filled few more holes.
Few odds and ends and we can close up:

then if the list can contain identical buttons to press,

I thought I knew where you were going with that, (but the temporary device selection would make it trickier). BUT2

a keymove to the Fav button should be used from the device mode where it’s needed?

Then you really lost me.

I haven't phrased the question too well. I need to work on this one and will beg for help if it fails. I hope I know where I'm going with it

3.5 ... Will the extender switch to AUX and back to where we came from when done with one mini macro? Does it switch to temporary device (Fav device index?) for each mini macro?

That's the idea. I sure hope it works. I haven't used the extender's fav list at all in a long time (my cable box has a better fav list).[/quote]
Works like gangbusters, just the first part so far. Brilliant system

John, re your first answer about what do I care what others do. I know JP1 is a free country. I don't care how other people design things. I'm just playing with and listening to alternatives. Yet at the same time I don;t want to do something really dumb ,if the simplest of ways was on p2 of the instructions or if constraints of the remote are really in the way. Anyway, thanks for the freedom and your super answers!

[ElizabethD]

Update and more questions.
Using Fav works nicely. Now I need 4 such lists Any chance?
But I’m still fuzzy on parts of it. In the 8910, it runs through sound controls or input selections without any problems. But, I think I'll have problems with 7800 C7 because of no nesting, and since 2 of 3 keys are used by temp device, I’d need macros on the command keys.
The only syntax that works for me is something like this:

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 DEV_AUD;SHIFT-2;Dev_Cancel;{Pause};DEV_AUD;SHIFT-3;Dev_Cancel;{Pause};DEV_AUD;SHIFT-4;Dev_Cancel;{Pause};DEV_AUD;SHIFT-5;Dev_Cancel;{Pause};DEV_AUD;SHIFT-6;Dev_Cancel;{Pause}

where these shift numbers are discrete commands for sound or inputs.

So I read the readme file again and again and again.
In view of what the readme file says, this required syntax is inconsistent. As is my observation that it makes no difference what device is selected on the Fav sheet in the bottom left corner. Is that the device index that the readme refers to? Is Fav a global thing? (in which case the point about keymoves that I confused you with is irrelevant).
Obviously I’m still missing something fundamental, can you help some more, please?

[johnsfine]

I don't understand your question and I probably don't remember enough about the 7800 extender to give a good answer anyway. Sorry. I hope someone else remembers that stuff.

[ElizabethD]

I may have come to grips with what’s going on with the 8910, so until I hit 7800 work, help not needed. Famous last words
This sort of thing works very well as an example of traversing devices with one button, optionally, depending on needs, synchronizing with TV and receiver, which is what I tested this on.

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 #	Fav Keys	Note
1	SHIFT-RCVR/AMP;{Pause};XSHIFT-RCVR/AMP;{Pause};SHIFT-VCR;{Pause};SHIFT-TV; Pause};SHIFT-DVD;{Pause};SHIFT-AUX;{Pause};SHIFT-CD;{Pause} 	

Where shift-<dev> are calls to macros and keymoves/special protocols, but they need not be.

Contrary to my earlier posts, setting and cancellation of temporary device is not needed. Keymoves not needed. It works with other commands interspersed between the Fav use, just as John and the readme file said it should.

I still don’t know the purpose of setting of device in the bottom left corner as it appears to be completely irrelevant and seems ignored .

Why it didn’t work in the past few days, I can’t tell, other that I noticed that sometimes I need to upload this code three times before it really catches on. Sometimes I only get one blink during the upload which I didn’t notice before. Sometimes the remote resets when I plug in the cable which I also didn’t see earlier. All this caused me to keep revising the code and changing conclusions about how Fav might work vs instructions.